CPZ: Outcome - Roads to be Included

[Reg Adams]

The headlines are that the following roads will be included in the CPZ: Blandford Road (1-83 & 2-84); Cedars Road; Chaffinch Road; ClockHouse Road (to the Hampden Road junction); Elm Road; Queens Road; Rowden Road; Sidney Road; and ThayersFarm Road.

The following roads will be excluded from the CPZ: Acacia Road, Beckenham Road, Belmont Road, Betts Close, Blandford Avenue, Churchfields Road, Croydon Road, Durban Road, Gowland Place, Hampden Avenue, Hampden Road, Hayne Road, Kendall Avenue, Kendall Road, Malory Close, Westfield Road and YewTree Road.

There were about 760 valid votes cast in response to Bromley Council's recent consultation survey on a Controlled Parking Zone in this area. Overall, that represents a turn-out in excess of 50%. Based on the votes, the territory for the CPZ to be introduced has been defined. Where the majority of residents in a particular road voted in favour of a CPZ, that road will be included within the designated CPZ. The converse applies in those roads where the majority of respondents voted against having a CPZ in their road. The scope of the CPZ scheme will be reviewed six months after its introduction. During the review, residents and businesses in roads within the designated CPZ will be invited to comment on the extent to which the CPZ has achieved the outcomes they anticipated. Also by the time the review takes place, residents and businesses will have had time to assess the possible knock-on effects from parking displaced from roads within the CPZ.

A letter is being circulated to all residents within the original consultation area, providing further details. The next stage will be formal approval of the CPZ scheme at a future PortfolioHolder's Meeting (probably 26 Nov 2008 or 15 Jan 2009). These Meetings, like most Council Meetings, are held at The Civic Centre and the public is warmly invited to attend.

Many thanks to everyone who voted. It's good to know that Democracy is alive and well here.

[marie shallcross]

I hope that ALL the residents in all the above mentioned roads receive a letter as this was not the case last time!

I am also very concerned that the Council are not treating this area as a whole - designating some of the roads as controlled zones is going to have a knock on affect on the other roads as the problem will merely be shunted on to them. Living where we do we suffer from inconsiderate parking from both commuters and the Balgowan school run (the latter also nearly gridlocking the area on occasion)

any solution which doesnt treat the area as a whole is going to cause more problems and greater resentment

[Chris Leggatt]

I think that you you are making a big mistake in not making a blanket CPZ our road is dangerously congested at times,it should not be down to us to provide extra parking for parents who have moved so far away that they have to drive to school ,or be an extended car park for the station.

[Jon Clarke]

Thanks for letting us all know Reg. I wonder if there will be a clause put in to the rules of the scheme that there should be a public vote every 2-3 years, as the area has a pretty fluid home-owner base, what with many families moving in and out of the area for the excellent primary schools and but not the secondary schools. It would be nice to see democracy given a fair shout on a continuing basis for fairness.

I hear Copers Cope Road is the next area for the CPZ consultation process. Perhaps the Council would like to list those areas next in 2008/09 that they intend to poll. It would seem there might be quite a few 'one-off' areas the council is looking to make money from help residents with their parking problems.

With regards the Clock House area CPZ, will there be any way of residents seeing the planned car-parking spaces drawn up on a map and available online or at the local library so that we can all see how big they are and where they will be placed, or indeed help to create more where some residents would like to be able to park across their drives/drop-curbs or indeed their friendly neighbour's driveway?

When will the council decide to implement this zone?

How do they decide on the time-limit the zone covers?

Why is it not free to local residents? Surely any non-badged car, and I'm sure there will be enough, will suffice the salary of a parking attendant for the couple of hours a day that most people in favour wanted for the zone to apply.

[Cllr John Getgood, Penge & Cator ward]

As we have started a new thread on this, here's a repeat of the entry I made on the previous thread regarding the outcome in Penge & Cator ward. I have received emails disputing and disagreeing with the results.

I represent the Penge & Cator Ward which borders Clock House but includes Thayers Farm, Chaffinch and Rowden Roads. It also includes some BR3 addresses. I thought members of this site may be interested in an entry I made on my own blog site regarding the proposed scheme:

I now have some of the initial results of the consultation on a controlled Parking Zone around Clock House Station. For the roads in Penge & Cator Ward, the response rate was: 30 from Thayers Farm Rd, 42 from Chaffinch Rd and 28 from Rowden. That's not overwhelming but quite good for this type of exercise.

The general response was in favour of a CPZ. It was narrow in Thayers Farm (14 : 13) but stronger in Chaffinch (34 : 8) and Rowden (31 : 6).

From these results, I would expect the Portfolio Holder to approve the CPZ for these roads. Details of the style of CPZ have still to be fully discussed. Should restrictions be for a couple of hours at mid-day or all day? It would be helpful to have residents views on this.

It may be a while yet before a final decision is taken as the results from the other side of Beckenham Rd were not nearly so clear cut. That side also has the usual complication of a CPZ that introducing it for one set of roads will in some cases simply pass the problem on to another set of roads. At least our roads are fairly self contained though there will still be a knock on effect on the other side.

Please share this information with your neighbours and do get in touch if you want to raise any further questions or concerns.

Penge & Cator residents can read the blog on: www.readmyday.co.uk/JohnGetgood
or to join our email information group, please email me at [e-mail]

Regards,
Cllr John Getgood
Penge & Cator

[Tim Hudson]

This is great news and as a Queens Road resident, I look forward to welcoming the CPZ. I feel sorry for those roads next to the CPZ included roads who votes against. There roads are going to be crammed from day 1 of the new regulations, but thats the power of the vote I suppose!

[marie shallcross]

if these letters were those being distributed on friday october 31st can I just say we didnt receive one in hampden road - so how are we supposed to know whats happening??

[Reg Adams]

Marie,

There are more than 1200 houses and flats on the distribution-list (i.e. within the original CPZ consultation area). Deliveries began on Thursday afternoon (30 October) to ClockHouse Road addresses. I understand that the entire exercise should be completed by Sunday evening (2 November). Let me know if you still haven't received anything by then. Maybe a *.PDF of the letter could be posted on this website. (It really ought to be on the Council website too).

[Steph Gray]

Absolutely. As someone in Durban Road - now the road nearest to Beckenham Hospital and one of the ones nearest to Clock House not in the CPZ - I'm nervous about what will happen. Right now, parking is generally not a big problem, but if the roads around become part of the CPZ, then I suspect it will start to become one. That's not something which the voting/decision-making process really managed to capture, I think.

Tim Hudson said:

This is great news and as a Queens Road resident, I look forward to welcoming the CPZ. I feel sorry for those roads next to the CPZ included roads who votes against. There roads are going to be crammed from day 1 of the new regulations, but thats the power of the vote I suppose!

[Jon Clarke]

Sorry Tim , I totally disagree.

So it's okay to feel sorry for the roads just outside the CPZ is it? Did you feel sorry for them when ticking the Yes vote I'd like to know, knowing that if you got a CPZ you wouldn't be sharing the parking load anymore with what are still your neighbours and the local nighbourhood, but transfering the problem to them and not giving it a second thought, because this is what CPZ's do. As long as an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality exists then underhanded council tactics and setting up revenue generating solutions for them will continue. It's a better human principle to share I believe.

The erosion of freedom, even parking a car where you wish without having to pay for it, is all too easily given away.

The problem of parking isn't a neighbourhood one, it's a council one for they control what gets built, how many carparking spaces are required, and local planning needed to accomodate future trends, but hey when it all goes wrong they can fall back on the local residents, divide and rule and make a new rules and tax revenues so easily too.

[Reg Adams]

Jon,
There are a lot of questions packed into your posting of 27 Oct and I'll try to answer them as best I can, but not necessarily in the order in which you asked them. Also, it's only fair to point out that my Party is not part of the Administration that runs Bromley Council at the present time. Nor is John Getgood's.

1) The Council will implement this CPZ scheme for the nine roads identified above following: a) Official approval at the Portfolio Holder's Meeting (26 Nov 08 or 15 Jan 09) and b) Finalisation of various issues by the traffic engineers – where & how to mark out the parking bays; where to install the street signs notifying the hours of operation of the CPZ; offering for sale the Residents Permits and books of Visitors' Vouchers, etc. I estimate that the CPZ scheme will not be up and running before March 2009.

2) In the consultation exercise, one of the questions on the 'voting-slip' asked residents & businesses to express a preference for "all-day" operation (typically 08:30 to 18:30, at £70 per year per vehicle) versus "mid-day" operation(typically for one or two hours, 12:00 to 14:00, at £35 per year per vehicle). I think the time-limits/hours of operation will be determined in accordance with majority voting by respondents in the nine roads affected. Frankly, I think it might be a close-call as to whether the majority vote was for the £70 option or the £35 option. My preliminary analysis of the 48 survey responses filed on this website showed 24 votes for "all-day" versus only 18 votes for "mid-day", with 6 don't know/no answers.

3) Why isn't it free to local residents? Well, I guess the official answer would be that somehow the expenses of setting-up and operating the CPZ have to be paid for, i.e. the marking-out of the bays, the installation of the street-signs, the wages of the enforcement officers, admin. staff, etc. So, all those payments for Residents Permits and Visitors Vouchers and Penalty Charges are needed to cover the expenses of the CPZ scheme. The main beneficiaries of the CPZ scheme are supposed to be a limited group of residents in a limited number of roads (rather than all Bromley Borough residents), so it is this limited group of residents who should pay. I acknowledge that 23 out of 48 survey responses filed on this website were along the lines: "Shouldn't it be free to local residents?" while another 23 survey responses were: "Yes, I would buy a permit if our road became part of a CPZ." But, for the Council's own survey, a relatively small percentage of the 760 answers were: "Shouldn't it be free to local residents?" In fact, given that those respondents who stated on their voting-slips: "Yes I would buy a Permit" already knew that they would be charged £35 or £70 per year per vehicle (plus £2 per day for every Visitor's Voucher), an outside observer would say: "Why should the Council offer something for free when the majority of respondents have voted to pay for it?!" That said, I applaud the idea of running a petition to garner public support for free Permits, but I wouldn't bet on the prospects for its success.

4) I will try to get the detailed design of location of parking-bays in the CPZ published prior to implementation of the CPZ scheme. But I very much doubt that there will be any waivers granted to the rule: "For properties with the capacity for parking on the drive/forecourt or in the garage/front-garden, a yellow line will be painted on the road to mark the dropped-kerb/crossover. Vehicles will not be allowed to park on this yellow line during the hours of operation of the CPZ."

5) Will be there be a re-run of the voting process for a CPZ every two or three years? Frankly, I doubt it. The Council is committed to carrying out a review of the CPZ scheme for this area six months after its introduction. So, if March 2009 is the start-up date, we should have a review in Autumn 2009. In the review exercise, residents will effectively be voting on whether their road stays in the CPZ (or becomes included in the CPZ) or whether their road is taken out of the CPZ. Beyond that Autumn 2009 review, I doubt if there will be provision for another review – unless there is a major public outcry. Prior to this latest exercise – in Spring 2005 – residents in Balgowan Road, Belmont Road, Cedars Road, Croydon Road, Durban Road, Elm Road, Hampden Avenue, Hayne Road and Westfield Road were surveyed on their views about having a CPZ. Then – as now – with the exception of Elm Road, clear majorities in all those roads voted against a CPZ. I received a lot of phone calls and E-mails from residents this time round asking why on earth the Council was dredging up the idea of a CPZ again and wasn't it all a waste of Council money and effort to run another survey on the same issue within less than four years.

6) Yes, there are plans for parking controls to be introduced on the Copers Cope side of New Beckenham Station, stretching towards the main road, not far from Beckenham Junction Station (downside). As I understand it, the scheme as outlined so far includes Residents Permits and pay-and-display parking. Apparently, at this stage, there are no plans to include in this scheme Lennard Road, Kingshall Road or other roads on the Penge & Cator side of the tracks. New Beckenham is the next station to ClockHouse on the up-line. In the absence of parking controls around New Beckenham, maybe some commuters who currently park near ClockHouse Station might be displaced towards New Beckenham. Now, maybe those commuters will look at other options – around Lower Sydenham, Elmers End, Eden Park, West Wickham?

I'm not surprised that residents living near many of the railways stations in our Borough are agitating for deterrents against commuter parking, but CPZs may not turn out to be the panacea envisaged. It was interesting to read the comments on this website from commuters like Duncan and Dionysis. They have a legitimate gripe about the inadequacy of car-parks provided by the railway authorities. So, it was a worthy idea to "engage with the commuters" after all. Maybe there would be have been more, but for the fact that some people with no interest in free speech and in listening to the views of others took it upon themselves to remove the relevant fliers about this website from commuters' car-windscreens.

[Jon Clarke]

Many thanks Reg,

In answer to point 3. I added 'Shouldn't in be free for local residents' on this site only in the profile questions. The council never put that option or question in the survey. Now they are not going to give the option of something free are they, but considering the cost and possible revenues, it should perhaps be a one off payment, not an annual one, I don't think they'll be round yearly to re-paint lines. But it if half of the 1200 houses are within the CPZ now and have to pay £75 at least a year the council have a lovely extra £45,000 a year to tot up.

Will there be any limit on how many visas will be awarded and per household? And does the car have to be registered to the householder or someone who lives there, what about hire cars and daytime services like builders etc? Will a visa for Clock House Road be okay for Cedars Road and visa versa etc?

[marie shallcross]

hi reg
as of now - evening of monday november 3rd nothing received - and I can say the same for some other houses in hampden road - lack of communication from the council (dare I say again?) not impressive - it does raise the question as to how many houses actually received the initial letter enabling them to respond...

Reg Adams said:

Marie,

There are more than 1200 houses and flats on the distribution-list (i.e. within the original CPZ consultation area). Deliveries began on Thursday afternoon (30 October) to ClockHouse Road addresses. I understand that the entire exercise should be completed by Sunday evening (2 November). Let me know if you still haven't received anything by then. Maybe a *.PDF of the letter could be posted on this website. (It really ought to be on the Council website too).