Clock House CPZ Scheme Beckenham Starts 5th October - News & Questions!

[Jon Clarke]

The ongoing CPZ (Controlled Parking Zone) saga continues this week with some roads and not all, as of this moment I'm reliably informed, receiving the Final CPZ notice and Application Form for a Residential Parking permit and Application Form for Visitors Vouchers. The start date is to be the 5th October for all three zones.

First let's get the bugs out of the way - the councillors will be reading this, so hopefully they can take appropriate action and report back quickly with binding answers.

On the Implementation Form/Map it says that if the residents would like to read the report of the important Residents Meeting of the 14th July 2009 it is on their website at http://www.bromley.gov.uk/transportprojects - this link currently just points to an error page and therefore needs fixing.

The second bug/error that needs a clear answer is that the Implementation form says ‘ Pay and Display parking bays will operate between 10.00am and 12.00 Noon, Monday to Friday. If necessary these bays can also be used by residents/visitors displaying a valid permit.’ However, the accompanying Bromley Council official application form for the Parking Permit states that under the sections ‘Condition of use for you, the permit holder’ – 5/ Parking places – A permit does not enable you to park in permitted parking zones that display signs for a zone different to that indicated on the permit, or on a yellow line waiting restriction, and not in pay and display or metered bays. I can see permit holders being ticketed by traffic wardens who don’t know about the earlier not so formal form’s lettering and then residents having to fight the payments department over it.

The third question needing answered was the assumption and what was thought was agreed at the public residents summer meeting by the councillors that the Zone 1 initial payment would be only 50% whilst the scheme runs the first 6 months before the promised re-survey – the officlal form now says it will be only discounted 40% from £75 per car to £45.

The Final point is that the rush is on, all their forms state that they need 21 days to process the Resident & Visitor permits, and as the deadline day for when traffic wardens start to patrol (hopefully) and ticket is the 5th October. As of yesterday when we received our form that gives us, hm! no spare days and today -1 day to find all the many pieces of paperwork required and sent off to the council offices for process. Why the hurry all of a sudden, there hasn’t even been any notices about road line painting? Why can’t the council do this in a mannered and timely fashion? Put the start to November?

That was going to be the final point, but one last point to make is that I’d hoped the leaflet, map, wording and forms would all be online at Bromley Council’s website, but once again they are not. Perhaps they might do this or I’ll be looking for a working scanner once again to put the docs on here for all those in and those especially on the periphery of the scheme and outside to know what’s going on.

All those points we await answers and action on.

Moving on, whether we like it or not we have a CPZ, but we were all given categorical assurances that it would be resurveyed after 6 months. So when does it start? Well the leaflet and map state ‘The scheme will be implemented in late September 2009. Information leaflets and warning letters will be issued for the first two weeks of enforcement. Full enforcement of the restrictions will commence on 5th October 2009.

The CPZ will in nearly all cases be a continuous bay type up and down the road, so one is able to park across one's front drive if one wants, but if you do within the times of the zone operation you will need to display your permit. It does also mean that you are entitled to park across someone elses driveway entrance (but hey neighbours we wouldn’t do that now would we?) , but also if you block someone in, then the traffic warden can ticket that car. (Slight issue here or question. How will the traffic warden know which permitted car across someone's drive is owned by that house owner or perhaps his friendly neighbour or a complete rogue from 5 doors away? Another one for the clarification list perhaps).

So what are the lovely costs?

Zone 1 Normal Annual Cost £75 per vehicle, Discount Cost £45, Discount Ends 30th April 2010
Zone 2 & 3 Normal Annual Cost £35 per vehicle
Visitors Permits all zones £30 for book of 15 permits (4 books per house ONLY per year) Possible cost £120 for 60 tickets!

Parking Bay Charges All Zones £2.00* The pay and display cost is for the complete hours of operation of the bay for a day or any portion therof. Payment can also be made before 10.00am.
So if you don’t buy visitor permits then get to those parking bays quick! Wonder who will park their permitted car in there and then swap it for a friend's car when the friend needs it....?

Residents over 60 get a little break – they can get Free Visitors Vouchers but must send proof when applying which can include one of the following 1/ a copy of current Freedom Pass and photo card, 2/ a driving licence (paper or photo card) (I expect they mean copy of this and the rest), 3/ letter of pension entitlement, 4/birth certificate if it shows your current name, 5/ current passport, 6/ medical card

I’ll endeavour to scan and attach or if need be type out all the blurb asap. But, if you need a permit be quick, there are several payment options and they also take cheque or postal orders made out to ‘London Borough of Bromley’.

If you need any urgent forms, questions answered, advice then here are the contact details.

Parking Permit Team
London Borough of Bromley
PO Box 313
Bromley
BR1 3GL

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
http://www.bromley.gov.uk/parking

Off to give my drive up to a needy neighbour during the day and still unhappy at how this has been so mismanaged and bulldozed through by the Council. Let the new tax begin, like we could all do with another payment for something that was once free!

Do forward this page on to your neighbours, school parents and friends, and those outside the zones.

And for the latest info for those who Twitter do follow us on http://Twitter.com/Beckenham where we bring you all the latest local news and help, answer a myriad of questions, plus add some entertainment along the way.

Cheers

JC

[Duncan]

As a non resident of the CPZ I do think its confusing. The lines and signage make it look like its ok to park in front of someones drive as long as you don't do it during the 2 hour exclusion. I think the original plan was to put single yellows in front of all driveways but this was changed because residents wanted to be able to park in front of their own driveways.

Obviously parking in front of someone's drive is completely inconsiderate and common sense should prevail. I hope the situation improves for you when the traffic bods are on patrol. The amount of people I see stopping on zig zags on the high street or parking mediately after a sharp bend makes me think that a lot of people don't understand the laws of the road any more unless they are spelled out to them.

[Paul Dando]

There are several I've seen like this. I suspect the answer would be different if the bay were painted across his drive.

Tim Hudson said:

Paul Nevard at Bromley Council has simply stated in his opinion that the problem will resolve itself

[Paul Sanderson,]

Some years ago I was in a discussion about parking across peoples' drives. At that time it was simply illegal to do so (and that applied to you and your own drive) but though the Police were bound by the Law to deal with the infringement if they saw it or had it reported to them, in practice they would only do something about it if (a) someone actually complained about it and (b) the parked car was preventing you from leaving your drive but not if it was preventing you from arriving home (the parked car could prevent you rushing to hospital in a life-threatening emergency).

Assuming that is still the case nowadays, the continuous parking bays don't alter that, and should any 'outsider' wish to apply an interpretation that the new parking bay markings painted on the road mean it's now OK to park across drives, then they deserve all they get. Though - as Tim has found out - getting what they deserve does depend on the authorities stirring themselves to act in time. It may be that a photograph showing the time and date would lead to a satisfactory result.

Obviously the CPZ agreement with residents is that the residents can park across their driveways, so if a Policeman was to walk down the road and see such an infringement, he is certainly not now bound to do anything about it, even though he actually still is entitled to do so.

Nevertheless, it's an interesting situation. Just as zig-zag parkers or dangerous bend parkers choose to 'forget' what they've always known if it means they can save walking their fat ar*se an extra 20 metres, it looks like parking across peoples' driveways now falls into that same amnesia category. During 10-12 on weekdays they'll be ticketed, but outside of those hours it depends on the Police responding. Or, with my trolley jack on castors, I can always turn a car so that there is room to enter or leave my driveway, but it's likely that I'll be so tired and exhausted after having done that that the parked car will be left sticking out into the roadway and it would be against any number of Health and Safety issue for me to attempt to put it back in my debilitated state.

[Duncan]

The pay and display machines were installed in cedars road yesterday and round by the station but haven't been switched on yet.

[Jeff Jeffery]

I still find it odd that people who live near a train station expect to not have any commuter parking in their road.

When buying/renting a property various things come in to play when making the decision, One of these is proximity to such train stations. "Do I want to live closer to the train station, in which case there's be more commuter parking but at least I wouldn't have so far to go, or do I want to live further away but have less of a parking problem?"

Introducing a CPZ has turned this on its head. People living near the station have proximity to the station AND no commuter parking. People further away have further to go to get to the local station AND now have commuter parking to put up with.

If commuters were parking badly (e.g. across driveways) then the council should have been hassled in to upping the number of wardens/police/CPOs (if CPOs have such powers) patrolling an area so the perpetrators got fined in to being more considerate rather than being waved away with a CPZ.

I suspect some of the extra parking happening just outside the CPZ are local residents who don't want to, or can't afford to, pay the fee and don't mind walking a few metres back to their house. Certainly in the evenings around my house there are lots of spaces when there didn't used to be and I can't believe they were ALL previously taken up by commuters just leaving their cars overnight.

So, if residents local to a station want the convenience of proximity to public transport without the downside of commuters then they can pay for their CPZ, but they can also pay for the CPZs for areas that would get the knock-on effect.

[Anthony Phillips]

I live in the block of flats next to the station and since this has been implemented I have found out (we received no communication from the council on this) that we are not eligible for a permit.

We have no off road parking nor can we park on Beckenham Road or the surrounding area. We are therefore now embroiled in a battle with the Parking department and Portfolio Holder to address this urgently as the first we knew of the scheme actually being implemented was the appearance of the signs on the Roads included. At the moment we have been informed we can park in Hayne Road a few streets away which has left the residents very angry, both with the misleading original survey in August 2008 (which we were included in) and the complete absence of communication since then. Councillors Phillips and now Adams are being supportive with this but I apologise to any residents in Hayne Road (and other surrounding streets that we are currently forced to park in) for this situation and sincerely hope it will be resolved soon.

I have also just found out about this website, which had we been aware of would have been able to comment on this much earlier in the process.

I have also been out several days last week to observe the situation (specifically zone two where we live between 10 am and 12 noon) and was I'll admit pleasantly surprised by the effect this had with regards to on street parking during this time, there are considerably fewer cars on the streets so happy to give credit where it's due on this. I was however dismayed to see the number of cars without parking permits and no pay and display tickets (I counted 19 on Tuesday, especially concentrated in Zone 2) and no enforcement in progress. Does anyone know if this scheme live and enforced at the current time? I have asked this question direct to the Councillors and Parking engineer involved but not yet received an answer

Regards Tony

[Duncan]

On Monday some tickets were issued. I noticed two cars with tickets on that were parked in the Pay and Display area directly next to the station.

[Anthony Phillips]

Thanks Duncan, this seems to have hot home as today all the cars next to the station have Paid and displayed

[Duncan]

I always thought the drop down area with the garages belonged to the flats but that has been chained up looking derelict for months now.

[marie shallcross]

I am not the only resident of Hampden Road who is finding that not only is their personal life ( kids, shopping, dogs, elderly relatives, etc) being majorly inconvenienced by the CPZ but that their livlihood is also being adversly affected!

We should not be affected by commuter parking to this degree as we are not right next to the station; we have NEVER had this sort of problem in the 20 years we've lived here.

if this continues I am probably going to see a reduction in income - perhaps the residents withinthe CPZ who were determined to move the problem instead of thinking it through fully would re-imburse myself and others in this situation?

[Anthony Phillips]

Are commuters parking as far down as Hampden Road? This could also be some of the displaced residents from the Beckenham Road flats next to the station who now have no choice other than to park in the surrounding streets. As I mentioned before I'm desperately trying to the get the council (Mr Nevard) and the Portfolio Holder (Councillor Smith) to correct this part of the issue. I didn't realise that there were other street that were also unhappy with this implementation, were Hampden Road residents included in the original survey?

[marie shallcross]

part of Hampden Road and part of Hampden Avenue were included in the most recent survey and funnily enough, they could perceive that their neighbours would have an immediate problem if not included so they a] told their neighbours and b] we made a united stand to point out that a piecemeal effort was not what was required...

as for you & your flat dwellling neighbours parking around here - I would assume that you're trying to park along the strectches of road that dont have a house frontage so as to minimise the disruption to residents - unlike most commuters who will park in the first empty space without thought for residents' needs!